r/Bitcoin: critique of COLDCARD dice-seed guidance against Ian Coleman's converter
reddit-dice-coleman-guidance-critique
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1vg0lxz/did_some_checking_on_seed_generation_by_dice_on/
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Two new comments from orbag arguing Ian Coleman's tool yields only 2 bits of entropy per dice roll, so a 24-word seed needs at least 160 rolls.
edited: false
body:
What question do you have about Ian Colemans Mnemonic Code Converter? You name it in your title but say nothing about it in the body of your post.
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+comment: p21s8lb
+parent: t1_p1t9j3z
+author: orbag
+created_utc: 1786020004
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Two new comments from orbag arguing Ian Coleman's tool yields only 2 bits of entropy per dice roll, so a 24-word seed needs at least 160 rolls.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 16 lines
edited: false body: What question do you have about Ian Colemans Mnemonic Code Converter? You name it in your title but say nothing about it in the body of your post. + +comment: p21s8lb +parent: t1_p1t9j3z +author: orbag +created_utc: 1786020004 +edited: false +body: +I think it depends on the algorithm , eg ian colemans algorithm only gives 2 bits of entropy per dice roll + +comment: p21su9u +parent: t1_p1uj3qk +author: orbag +created_utc: 1786020191 +edited: false +body: +It depends on which tool you used, if you use Ian Colemans tool you need to roll at least 160 times for a 24 word seedExtracted text as captured
post: 1vg0lxz author: baddabaddabing created_utc: 1785915651 title: Did some checking on seed generation by dice on Coldcard vs. Ian Colemans Mnemonic Code Converter and have some questions. Coldcard might reduce your security by missleading guidance! body: So Coinkite guidance displayed on the display is: "... each roll adds only 2.585 of entropy. **For 128-bit security, which is considered the minimum, you need 50 rolls,** and for 256-bits of security, 99 rolls." They let you press the buttons 1-6 (and only those) for each roll. So you can only use a D6. If you did it 50 times, you think you did the minimum to have 128-Bit security. Here are my questions: * The 2.585 entropy per roll are based on entropy values 0-9 (base 10), right? * If I limit the entropy values to 1-6 (D6 dice) I introduce a massive bias, right? * Is it fair to assume that the resulting entropy is just 1.67 per roll? * **Is my ColdCard dice genrated seed realy secured by the minimum 128 bit, or more like with just 84 bits?** Look, I'm no expert, indeed hope I'm wrong. UPDATE: I was wrong - see below. comment: p1t996o parent: t3_1vg0lxz author: twitch-switch created_utc: 1785915963 edited: false body: I rolled over 170 times, am I OK? comment: p1t9j3z parent: t3_1vg0lxz author: infernal_celery created_utc: 1785916098 edited: false body: The entropy comes from log2(6) =2.585. The D6 element is taken into account comment: p1t9p0h parent: t1_p1t996oExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 0 lines
Extracted text as captured
post: 1vg0lxz author: baddabaddabing created_utc: 1785915651 title: Did some checking on seed generation by dice on Coldcard vs. Ian Colemans Mnemonic Code Converter and have some questions. Coldcard might reduce your security by missleading guidance! body: So Coinkite guidance displayed on the display is: "... each roll adds only 2.585 of entropy. **For 128-bit security, which is considered the minimum, you need 50 rolls,** and for 256-bits of security, 99 rolls." They let you press the buttons 1-6 (and only those) for each roll. So you can only use a D6. If you did it 50 times, you think you did the minimum to have 128-Bit security. Here are my questions: * The 2.585 entropy per roll are based on entropy values 0-9 (base 10), right? * If I limit the entropy values to 1-6 (D6 dice) I introduce a massive bias, right? * Is it fair to assume that the resulting entropy is just 1.67 per roll? * **Is my ColdCard dice genrated seed realy secured by the minimum 128 bit, or more like with just 84 bits?** Look, I'm no expert, indeed hope I'm wrong. UPDATE: I was wrong - see below. comment: p1t996o parent: t3_1vg0lxz author: twitch-switch created_utc: 1785915963 edited: false body: I rolled over 170 times, am I OK? comment: p1t9j3z parent: t3_1vg0lxz author: infernal_celery created_utc: 1785916098 edited: false body: The entropy comes from log2(6) =2.585. The D6 element is taken into account comment: p1t9p0h parent: t1_p1t996oExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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