r/Bitcoin: call for third-party audits of hardware-wallet entropy generation
reddit-hardware-wallet-entropy-audit-call
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1vfwlgj/all_hardware_wallet_manufacturers_need_to_release/
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One new comment noting entropy audits would be needed with every firmware release, which vendors will not do.
I have a vague recollection of 'true random' on Linux working something like this a long time ago, where if asked to output more than a certain buffer amount, it would stall until you button mashed to generate more entropy, rather than outputting unseeded randomness. And same with early versions of TrueCrypt, getting you to initiate mouse and keyboard activity when creating header keys, if it didn't feel it had enough entropy from available sources - showing a little progress bar and everything.
(*) Assuming user consent is gained for these hardware accesses, of course.
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+comment: p2032m9
+parent: t3_1vfwlgj
+author: Educational-Ask3429
+created_utc: 1785993118
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One new comment noting entropy audits would be needed with every firmware release, which vendors will not do.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 8 lines
I have a vague recollection of 'true random' on Linux working something like this a long time ago, where if asked to output more than a certain buffer amount, it would stall until you button mashed to generate more entropy, rather than outputting unseeded randomness. And same with early versions of TrueCrypt, getting you to initiate mouse and keyboard activity when creating header keys, if it didn't feel it had enough entropy from available sources - showing a little progress bar and everything. (*) Assuming user consent is gained for these hardware accesses, of course. + +comment: p2032m9 +parent: t3_1vfwlgj +author: Educational-Ask3429 +created_utc: 1785993118 +edited: false +body: +…. With every firmware release. Which they won’t do.Extracted text as captured
post: 1vfwlgj author: slvbtc created_utc: 1785902586 title: All hardware wallet manufacturers need to release 3rd party audited proof that their entropy generation is working. body: After this coinkite coldcard situation we cant trust code that is open source, we cant trust code that is closed source, and we definitely cant trust a statement saying "we use a TRNG so your seed is secure". Every hardware wallet manufacturer needs to release hard proof that their TRNG works, their code is complete and robust, and their entropy generation actually meets a minimum 128/256 bit standard. Even if their code is closed source a reputable 3rd party auditor can run tests on seed entropy generation to statistically prove 256 bits of entropy is being used. Every wallet manufacturer should have this 3rd party audited proof of entropy document available to view on their website, and if they do not do this by the end of this month we as a community should boycott that manufacturer to help ensure safety for all bitcoiners. comment: p1sgd00 parent: t3_1vfwlgj author: Empty-Mouse-856 created_utc: 1785902904 edited: false body: What about SW wallets? Can they have the same problem? comment: p1sgmnc parent: t3_1vfwlgj author: Big-Cheetah5159 created_utc: 1785903010 edited: false body: Or use dice rolls, it will alleviate the internal TRNG issue. comment: p1sh7ch parent: t1_p1sgmnc author: slvbtc created_utc: 1785903237 edited: false body: If a HW wallet manufacturer wants to offer the ability to generate a seed for their users they should have a 3rd party audited proof of entropy document. If they do not provide this audited proof of entropy they should not be in business. comment: p1shtcw parent: t3_1vfwlgj author: Infinite-Ad1720Excerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 0 lines
Extracted text as captured
post: 1vfwlgj author: slvbtc created_utc: 1785902586 title: All hardware wallet manufacturers need to release 3rd party audited proof that their entropy generation is working. body: After this coinkite coldcard situation we cant trust code that is open source, we cant trust code that is closed source, and we definitely cant trust a statement saying "we use a TRNG so your seed is secure". Every hardware wallet manufacturer needs to release hard proof that their TRNG works, their code is complete and robust, and their entropy generation actually meets a minimum 128/256 bit standard. Even if their code is closed source a reputable 3rd party auditor can run tests on seed entropy generation to statistically prove 256 bits of entropy is being used. Every wallet manufacturer should have this 3rd party audited proof of entropy document available to view on their website, and if they do not do this by the end of this month we as a community should boycott that manufacturer to help ensure safety for all bitcoiners. comment: p1sgd00 parent: t3_1vfwlgj author: Empty-Mouse-856 created_utc: 1785902904 edited: false body: What about SW wallets? Can they have the same problem? comment: p1sgmnc parent: t3_1vfwlgj author: Big-Cheetah5159 created_utc: 1785903010 edited: false body: Or use dice rolls, it will alleviate the internal TRNG issue. comment: p1sh7ch parent: t1_p1sgmnc author: slvbtc created_utc: 1785903237 edited: false body: If a HW wallet manufacturer wants to offer the ability to generate a seed for their users they should have a 3rd party audited proof of entropy document. If they do not provide this audited proof of entropy they should not be in business. comment: p1shtcw parent: t3_1vfwlgj author: Infinite-Ad1720Excerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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