r/coldcard: whether multisig is the only remaining option
reddit-multisig-only-way
https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/1vf9oh5/so_is_multisig_the_only_way_out/
Latest reviewed change
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One new comment by ElderMight arguing the multisig push is an overreaction, warning that a 2-of-3 setup also needs all three public keys, and recommending a dice-generated key with a strong passphrase instead.
https://benma.github.io/2020/11/05/multisig-xpubs-verification.html
No actually read this article about multisig you could argue it’s a bit more dangerous and most people’s setups are at risk! I think there’s nothing better than a Seedsigner you build yourself from rasberry pi ordered from a separate vendor. Make sure you verify and flash a new SD card with the verified software and roll dice 100 times. Add a passphrase on top off that and you are golden!
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+comment: p252sqi
+parent: t3_1vf9oh5
+author: ElderMight
+created_utc: 1786050742
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Held captures
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One new comment by ElderMight arguing the multisig push is an overreaction, warning that a 2-of-3 setup also needs all three public keys, and recommending a dice-generated key with a strong passphrase instead.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 16 lines
https://benma.github.io/2020/11/05/multisig-xpubs-verification.html No actually read this article about multisig you could argue it’s a bit more dangerous and most people’s setups are at risk! I think there’s nothing better than a Seedsigner you build yourself from rasberry pi ordered from a separate vendor. Make sure you verify and flash a new SD card with the verified software and roll dice 100 times. Add a passphrase on top off that and you are golden! + +comment: p252sqi +parent: t3_1vf9oh5 +author: ElderMight +created_utc: 1786050742 +edited: false +body: +I think the calls for multi-sig are an over reaction. + +ONE implementation of self custody failed by a specific vendor. A properly generated private key is still extremely secure. + +Pushing everyone to do multi sig is dangerous because it is more likely to lock out users from their funds than protect them from theft. + +I didn't know this before and recently found out that to do a 2 of 3 multi-sig, you need at least 2 of 3 keys AND all 3 public keys. If you lose 1 public key you lost your money... + +Dice generated private key + strong passphrase should be plenty enough security.Extracted text as captured
post: 1vf9oh5 author: ady1583 created_utc: 1785848399 title: So is multi-sig the only way out? body: It does look like multi-sig is the only way out. I’d say a 3/5 or a n-n with multiple hardware wallets. I know it’s over engineering but it’s more secure and less vulnerable to the CC fiasco. The only downside I am seeing is the multiple seeds and keeping in keeping in tabs with it every couple of months or so. comment: p1n5rb5 parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: alixanc created_utc: 1785848614 edited: false body: ... or just use proper entropy for the seed, like combining multiple software RNG or using physical RNG like cards, dice etc. This was always recommended, even by the maker of ColdCard. You can use different wallets/software to verify they all create the same priv/pub keys if you're extra paranoid. comment: p1nl9po parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Zestyclose-Way-1351 created_utc: 1785852999 edited: false body: alternative would be to use BIP85 to derive child seed phrases from the master seed + passphrase. [https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85\_vs\_passphrase/](https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85_vs_passphrase/) comment: p1nyq2w parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Mission-Disaster-447 created_utc: 1785856553 edited: false body: If you make your setup too complicated, you might lose your funds too, only not to a thief. Its tempting to make an ultra secure and complicated setup, after what happened here. But its better to keep a balance. A strong passphrase is enough protection for most people. comment: p1ocz7r parent: t1_p1nyq2w author: SpareEconomy1849 created_utc: 1785860190 edited: falseExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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Reddit served 1 additional comment record(s); the diff preserves their text and any edits to existing records.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 10 lines
edited: false body: Depends on how super huge the entropy of the extra password is.... + +comment: p22fbub +parent: t3_1vf9oh5 +author: Blackcherry777 +created_utc: 1786026511 +edited: false +body: +https://benma.github.io/2020/11/05/multisig-xpubs-verification.html + +No actually read this article about multisig you could argue it’s a bit more dangerous and most people’s setups are at risk! I think there’s nothing better than a Seedsigner you build yourself from rasberry pi ordered from a separate vendor. Make sure you verify and flash a new SD card with the verified software and roll dice 100 times. Add a passphrase on top off that and you are golden!Extracted text as captured
post: 1vf9oh5 author: ady1583 created_utc: 1785848399 title: So is multi-sig the only way out? body: It does look like multi-sig is the only way out. I’d say a 3/5 or a n-n with multiple hardware wallets. I know it’s over engineering but it’s more secure and less vulnerable to the CC fiasco. The only downside I am seeing is the multiple seeds and keeping in keeping in tabs with it every couple of months or so. comment: p1n5rb5 parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: alixanc created_utc: 1785848614 edited: false body: ... or just use proper entropy for the seed, like combining multiple software RNG or using physical RNG like cards, dice etc. This was always recommended, even by the maker of ColdCard. You can use different wallets/software to verify they all create the same priv/pub keys if you're extra paranoid. comment: p1nl9po parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Zestyclose-Way-1351 created_utc: 1785852999 edited: false body: alternative would be to use BIP85 to derive child seed phrases from the master seed + passphrase. [https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85\_vs\_passphrase/](https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85_vs_passphrase/) comment: p1nyq2w parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Mission-Disaster-447 created_utc: 1785856553 edited: false body: If you make your setup too complicated, you might lose your funds too, only not to a thief. Its tempting to make an ultra secure and complicated setup, after what happened here. But its better to keep a balance. A strong passphrase is enough protection for most people. comment: p1ocz7r parent: t1_p1nyq2w author: SpareEconomy1849 created_utc: 1785860190 edited: falseExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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Reddit served 1 additional comment record(s); the diff preserves their text and any edits to existing records.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 8 lines
edited: false body: No, just do what the people with Coldcards who didn't lose their funds did. + +comment: p204k4v +parent: t1_p1tiqbd +author: Javanaut018 +created_utc: 1785993786 +edited: false +body: +Depends on how super huge the entropy of the extra password is....Extracted text as captured
post: 1vf9oh5 author: ady1583 created_utc: 1785848399 title: So is multi-sig the only way out? body: It does look like multi-sig is the only way out. I’d say a 3/5 or a n-n with multiple hardware wallets. I know it’s over engineering but it’s more secure and less vulnerable to the CC fiasco. The only downside I am seeing is the multiple seeds and keeping in keeping in tabs with it every couple of months or so. comment: p1n5rb5 parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: alixanc created_utc: 1785848614 edited: false body: ... or just use proper entropy for the seed, like combining multiple software RNG or using physical RNG like cards, dice etc. This was always recommended, even by the maker of ColdCard. You can use different wallets/software to verify they all create the same priv/pub keys if you're extra paranoid. comment: p1nl9po parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Zestyclose-Way-1351 created_utc: 1785852999 edited: false body: alternative would be to use BIP85 to derive child seed phrases from the master seed + passphrase. [https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85\_vs\_passphrase/](https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85_vs_passphrase/) comment: p1nyq2w parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Mission-Disaster-447 created_utc: 1785856553 edited: false body: If you make your setup too complicated, you might lose your funds too, only not to a thief. Its tempting to make an ultra secure and complicated setup, after what happened here. But its better to keep a balance. A strong passphrase is enough protection for most people. comment: p1ocz7r parent: t1_p1nyq2w author: SpareEconomy1849 created_utc: 1785860190 edited: falseExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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Reddit served 1 additional comment record(s); the diff preserves their text and any edits to existing records.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 8 lines
Im assuming all attackers brute force 12 - 24 keywords which is hard enough. How will they even know on which of these wallets to run another brute force for the passphrase? Isnt it increasing their attack surfsce by a super huge margin? + +comment: p1wr4di +parent: t3_1vf9oh5 +author: CiaranCarroll +created_utc: 1785955292 +edited: false +body: +No, just do what the people with Coldcards who didn't lose their funds did.Extracted text as captured
post: 1vf9oh5 author: ady1583 created_utc: 1785848399 title: So is multi-sig the only way out? body: It does look like multi-sig is the only way out. I’d say a 3/5 or a n-n with multiple hardware wallets. I know it’s over engineering but it’s more secure and less vulnerable to the CC fiasco. The only downside I am seeing is the multiple seeds and keeping in keeping in tabs with it every couple of months or so. comment: p1n5rb5 parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: alixanc created_utc: 1785848614 edited: false body: ... or just use proper entropy for the seed, like combining multiple software RNG or using physical RNG like cards, dice etc. This was always recommended, even by the maker of ColdCard. You can use different wallets/software to verify they all create the same priv/pub keys if you're extra paranoid. comment: p1nl9po parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Zestyclose-Way-1351 created_utc: 1785852999 edited: false body: alternative would be to use BIP85 to derive child seed phrases from the master seed + passphrase. [https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85\_vs\_passphrase/](https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85_vs_passphrase/) comment: p1nyq2w parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Mission-Disaster-447 created_utc: 1785856553 edited: false body: If you make your setup too complicated, you might lose your funds too, only not to a thief. Its tempting to make an ultra secure and complicated setup, after what happened here. But its better to keep a balance. A strong passphrase is enough protection for most people. comment: p1ocz7r parent: t1_p1nyq2w author: SpareEconomy1849 created_utc: 1785860190 edited: falseExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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Reddit served 2 additional comment record(s); the diff preserves their text and any edits to existing records.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 21 lines
edited: false body: Look into Liana wallet. It's multi-sig with redundant keys. It's free and open source. + +comment: p1td3id +parent: t3_1vf9oh5 +author: SnooCookies9506 +created_utc: 1785917845 +edited: false +body: +Adding a passphrase is basically a 2 of 2 multi-sig if you think about it. + +comment: p1tiqbd +parent: t3_1vf9oh5 +author: Massive-Reception161 +created_utc: 1785920589 +edited: false +body: +Trezor for example has the 24 seed + passphrase. +Isnt it sufficient? + +Im assuming all attackers brute force 12 - 24 keywords which is hard enough. + +How will they even know on which of these wallets to run another brute force for the passphrase? Isnt it increasing their attack surfsce by a super huge margin?Extracted text as captured
post: 1vf9oh5 author: ady1583 created_utc: 1785848399 title: So is multi-sig the only way out? body: It does look like multi-sig is the only way out. I’d say a 3/5 or a n-n with multiple hardware wallets. I know it’s over engineering but it’s more secure and less vulnerable to the CC fiasco. The only downside I am seeing is the multiple seeds and keeping in keeping in tabs with it every couple of months or so. comment: p1n5rb5 parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: alixanc created_utc: 1785848614 edited: false body: ... or just use proper entropy for the seed, like combining multiple software RNG or using physical RNG like cards, dice etc. This was always recommended, even by the maker of ColdCard. You can use different wallets/software to verify they all create the same priv/pub keys if you're extra paranoid. comment: p1nl9po parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Zestyclose-Way-1351 created_utc: 1785852999 edited: false body: alternative would be to use BIP85 to derive child seed phrases from the master seed + passphrase. [https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85\_vs\_passphrase/](https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85_vs_passphrase/) comment: p1nyq2w parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Mission-Disaster-447 created_utc: 1785856553 edited: false body: If you make your setup too complicated, you might lose your funds too, only not to a thief. Its tempting to make an ultra secure and complicated setup, after what happened here. But its better to keep a balance. A strong passphrase is enough protection for most people. comment: p1ocz7r parent: t1_p1nyq2w author: SpareEconomy1849 created_utc: 1785860190 edited: falseExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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Reddit served 2 additional comment record(s); the diff preserves their text and any edits to existing records.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 16 lines
edited: false body: this is how i was setup. i had a multi-sig but all child seeds were derived from the master, and each signer was derived from it. thankfully i got funds moved before any loss. i still like the device. IF i use it in the future, it will be with my own entropy. + +comment: p1ruqju +parent: t3_1vf9oh5 +author: SuccessfulPlenty942 +created_utc: 1785895215 +edited: false +body: +A 2 of 3 multisig is not that hard if you've taken some time to learn how to use bitcoin. Id recommend it + +comment: p1s9pp7 +parent: t3_1vf9oh5 +author: Old_Instruction_6004 +created_utc: 1785900369 +edited: false +body: +Look into Liana wallet. It's multi-sig with redundant keys. It's free and open source.Extracted text as captured
post: 1vf9oh5 author: ady1583 created_utc: 1785848399 title: So is multi-sig the only way out? body: It does look like multi-sig is the only way out. I’d say a 3/5 or a n-n with multiple hardware wallets. I know it’s over engineering but it’s more secure and less vulnerable to the CC fiasco. The only downside I am seeing is the multiple seeds and keeping in keeping in tabs with it every couple of months or so. comment: p1n5rb5 parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: alixanc created_utc: 1785848614 edited: false body: ... or just use proper entropy for the seed, like combining multiple software RNG or using physical RNG like cards, dice etc. This was always recommended, even by the maker of ColdCard. You can use different wallets/software to verify they all create the same priv/pub keys if you're extra paranoid. comment: p1nl9po parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Zestyclose-Way-1351 created_utc: 1785852999 edited: false body: alternative would be to use BIP85 to derive child seed phrases from the master seed + passphrase. [https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85\_vs\_passphrase/](https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85_vs_passphrase/) comment: p1nyq2w parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Mission-Disaster-447 created_utc: 1785856553 edited: false body: If you make your setup too complicated, you might lose your funds too, only not to a thief. Its tempting to make an ultra secure and complicated setup, after what happened here. But its better to keep a balance. A strong passphrase is enough protection for most people. comment: p1ocz7r parent: t1_p1nyq2w author: SpareEconomy1849 created_utc: 1785860190 edited: falseExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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The Reddit thread gained 1 new comment.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 8 lines
Yep, I tried making it complex, almost lost my savings. Had to use recovery tools to brute force a few words I didn't have written down. Just follow the rules and recommendations, they're carefully engineered and tested + +comment: p1pukmn +parent: t1_p1nl9po +author: nymobster +created_utc: 1785873687 +edited: false +body: +this is how i was setup. i had a multi-sig but all child seeds were derived from the master, and each signer was derived from it. thankfully i got funds moved before any loss. i still like the device. IF i use it in the future, it will be with my own entropy.Extracted text as captured
post: 1vf9oh5 author: ady1583 created_utc: 1785848399 title: So is multi-sig the only way out? body: It does look like multi-sig is the only way out. I’d say a 3/5 or a n-n with multiple hardware wallets. I know it’s over engineering but it’s more secure and less vulnerable to the CC fiasco. The only downside I am seeing is the multiple seeds and keeping in keeping in tabs with it every couple of months or so. comment: p1n5rb5 parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: alixanc created_utc: 1785848614 edited: false body: ... or just use proper entropy for the seed, like combining multiple software RNG or using physical RNG like cards, dice etc. This was always recommended, even by the maker of ColdCard. You can use different wallets/software to verify they all create the same priv/pub keys if you're extra paranoid. comment: p1nl9po parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Zestyclose-Way-1351 created_utc: 1785852999 edited: false body: alternative would be to use BIP85 to derive child seed phrases from the master seed + passphrase. [https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85\_vs\_passphrase/](https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85_vs_passphrase/) comment: p1nyq2w parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Mission-Disaster-447 created_utc: 1785856553 edited: false body: If you make your setup too complicated, you might lose your funds too, only not to a thief. Its tempting to make an ultra secure and complicated setup, after what happened here. But its better to keep a balance. A strong passphrase is enough protection for most people. comment: p1ocz7r parent: t1_p1nyq2w author: SpareEconomy1849 created_utc: 1785860190 edited: falseExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 0 lines
Extracted text as captured
post: 1vf9oh5 author: ady1583 created_utc: 1785848399 title: So is multi-sig the only way out? body: It does look like multi-sig is the only way out. I’d say a 3/5 or a n-n with multiple hardware wallets. I know it’s over engineering but it’s more secure and less vulnerable to the CC fiasco. The only downside I am seeing is the multiple seeds and keeping in keeping in tabs with it every couple of months or so. comment: p1n5rb5 parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: alixanc created_utc: 1785848614 edited: false body: ... or just use proper entropy for the seed, like combining multiple software RNG or using physical RNG like cards, dice etc. This was always recommended, even by the maker of ColdCard. You can use different wallets/software to verify they all create the same priv/pub keys if you're extra paranoid. comment: p1nl9po parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Zestyclose-Way-1351 created_utc: 1785852999 edited: false body: alternative would be to use BIP85 to derive child seed phrases from the master seed + passphrase. [https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85\_vs\_passphrase/](https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/15soyi6/bip85_vs_passphrase/) comment: p1nyq2w parent: t3_1vf9oh5 author: Mission-Disaster-447 created_utc: 1785856553 edited: false body: If you make your setup too complicated, you might lose your funds too, only not to a thief. Its tempting to make an ultra secure and complicated setup, after what happened here. But its better to keep a balance. A strong passphrase is enough protection for most people. comment: p1ocz7r parent: t1_p1nyq2w author: SpareEconomy1849 created_utc: 1785860190 edited: falseExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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