r/coldcard: asking whether another wallet could randomly produce an affected Coldcard key
reddit-randomness-collision-question
https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/1vlbpxf/randomness_in_bitcoin_and_other_wallets/
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The thread gained two new replies: phoebeethical asked whether a passphrase can produce the same master password as a different seed, and logan-807128 confirmed the wording and explained that a passphrase effectively acts as an additional seed word.
160 bits = comparable to atoms in Earth's moon
Spoiler alert, with traditional computing we will never find a collision that corresponds with a specific 160bit bitcoin address. Practically impossible. So to answer the OPs question, it is practically impossible for a proper RNG function to create one of the hacked cold-card PRNG deterministic wallets. It is THEORETICALLY possible, but it will never happen.
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+comment: p3mstg0
+parent: t1_p32cujo
+author: phoebeethical
+created_utc: 1786709621
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The thread gained two new replies: phoebeethical asked whether a passphrase can produce the same master password as a different seed, and logan-807128 confirmed the wording and explained that a passphrase effectively acts as an additional seed word.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 22 lines
160 bits = comparable to atoms in Earth's moon Spoiler alert, with traditional computing we will never find a collision that corresponds with a specific 160bit bitcoin address. Practically impossible. So to answer the OPs question, it is practically impossible for a proper RNG function to create one of the hacked cold-card PRNG deterministic wallets. It is THEORETICALLY possible, but it will never happen. + +comment: p3mstg0 +parent: t1_p32cujo +author: phoebeethical +created_utc: 1786709621 +edited: false +body: +So a passphrase can convert a master password to the identical master password generated with a different set of words? + +comment: p3ngkn5 +parent: t1_p3mstg0 +author: logan-807128 +created_utc: 1786716648 +edited: false +body: +I know what you mean although there is a technical difference in your wording, what you said is correct. + +Say you used the seed words "hello world blah ... ", it would create the private key 1747293... (a super big number). Once you add a passphrase, the private key would now become a completely different number say 4827282..., there exists another seed words "somewhere out there..." without passphrase that would generate the exact same private key 4827282... + +There is a reason why some people call the passphrase the 13th word (12 word seed) or 25th word (24 word seed) because in many ways that's more correct than thinking the passphrase as password for your seed words. + +Extracted text as captured
post: 1vlbpxf author: Few_Tea_8183 created_utc: 1786437295 title: Randomness in Bitcoin and Other Wallets body: Has anyone already calculated the probability that a properly functioning wallet would randomly assign one of the affected Coldcard keys? comment: p300onr parent: t3_1vlbpxf author: Mission-Disaster-447 created_utc: 1786437660 edited: false body: Yes. Its very small. It would be like two people randomly picking the same atom in the visible universe. comment: p301uwp parent: t3_1vlbpxf author: EricJDMBAMD created_utc: 1786438259 edited: false body: I think the MK3 Coldcards before the new firmware were giving users a seed phrase out of 4 billion. With the new firmware its about 2.8 x 10^77. That's 6.5 x 10^67 times more possible seeds after the firmware update. comment: p30led2 parent: t1_p300onr author: Few_Tea_8183 created_utc: 1786447153 edited: false body: thank you both for your information. comment: p316d1y parent: t3_1vlbpxf author: Charming-Designer944 created_utc: 1786454157 edited: false body: Approximately 1/(2^(128-40)) i think for 12 word seeds. But i have not counted the exact bits. comment: p326dcfExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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Extracted text as captured
post: 1vlbpxf author: Few_Tea_8183 created_utc: 1786437295 title: Randomness in Bitcoin and Other Wallets body: Has anyone already calculated the probability that a properly functioning wallet would randomly assign one of the affected Coldcard keys? comment: p300onr parent: t3_1vlbpxf author: Mission-Disaster-447 created_utc: 1786437660 edited: false body: Yes. Its very small. It would be like two people randomly picking the same atom in the visible universe. comment: p301uwp parent: t3_1vlbpxf author: EricJDMBAMD created_utc: 1786438259 edited: false body: I think the MK3 Coldcards before the new firmware were giving users a seed phrase out of 4 billion. With the new firmware its about 2.8 x 10^77. That's 6.5 x 10^67 times more possible seeds after the firmware update. comment: p30led2 parent: t1_p300onr author: Few_Tea_8183 created_utc: 1786447153 edited: false body: thank you both for your information. comment: p316d1y parent: t3_1vlbpxf author: Charming-Designer944 created_utc: 1786454157 edited: false body: Approximately 1/(2^(128-40)) i think for 12 word seeds. But i have not counted the exact bits. comment: p326dcfExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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