r/coldcard: incident described as a blow to self-custody
reddit-self-custody-dagger
https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcard/comments/1vf5gj4/this_has_struck_a_dagger_through_the_heart_of/
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The original post body was replaced with [removed], and two comments by Crypto-Moony were deleted from the thread.
created_utc: 1785835835
title: This Has Struck a Dagger Through the Heart of Self-Custody
body:
-Self-custody is the the very beating heart of bitcoin. Remove it and I suspect bitcoin would be gradually swallowed up by big finance and eventually lose the essence that gives it value.
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-But this hack is a dagger through the self-custody movement. It will take some time to heal. There are many people who want to save their hard-earned money but are unable to deal with the technological complexities of hardware wallets, eg old people, people of below average IQ (by definition half the population), those with long working hours and children, etc, etc. Many people are terrified of making a mistake with the technology and losing everything.
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-Coldcard was a wallet for people who were careful and took their security seriously. It was expensive, air-gapped, bitcoin only, it had been around for several years. Its touchscreen software helped users avoid obvious mistakes. And some of these most diligent people have lost everything.
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The original post body was replaced with [removed], and two comments by Crypto-Moony were deleted from the thread.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 28 lines
created_utc: 1785835835 title: This Has Struck a Dagger Through the Heart of Self-Custody body: -Self-custody is the the very beating heart of bitcoin. Remove it and I suspect bitcoin would be gradually swallowed up by big finance and eventually lose the essence that gives it value. - -But this hack is a dagger through the self-custody movement. It will take some time to heal. There are many people who want to save their hard-earned money but are unable to deal with the technological complexities of hardware wallets, eg old people, people of below average IQ (by definition half the population), those with long working hours and children, etc, etc. Many people are terrified of making a mistake with the technology and losing everything. - -Coldcard was a wallet for people who were careful and took their security seriously. It was expensive, air-gapped, bitcoin only, it had been around for several years. Its touchscreen software helped users avoid obvious mistakes. And some of these most diligent people have lost everything. - -And where do the rest of us go? Does anyone know a hardware wallet you can really trust? Really? I don't think any of us can be so sure now. - -Many people will be heading over to Blackrock or Fidelity for their Bitcoin EFTs. And who could blame them? - -The hardware wallet industry has a long road ahead. We all need to go to sleep at night without wondering whether our retirement will have disappeared by the morning. Many of us are now anxiously turning over in our minds which wallet, if any, could be safe. +[removed] comment: p1mbchq parent: t3_1vf5gj4 edited: false body: One (relatively small) scammy company that does not care about customer protection should not cause this much panic, it's clear people don't understand self-custody - -comment: p1miwij -parent: t1_p1mgbtu -author: Crypto-Moony -created_utc: 1785840621 -edited: false -body: -Yes, median is a form of average, The other two being mean and mode. - -comment: p1mj7x3 -parent: t1_p1mbchq -author: Crypto-Moony -created_utc: 1785840752 -edited: false -body: -I hope you are right. comment: p1mqhro parent: t1_p1mgpucExtracted text as captured
post: 1vf5gj4 author: Crypto-Moony created_utc: 1785835835 title: This Has Struck a Dagger Through the Heart of Self-Custody body: [removed] comment: p1mbchq parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: gorillalifter47 created_utc: 1785837293 edited: false body: Does one car company selling a shit product that causes accidents and kills some people put a dagger through the heart of the driving? Does one food company selling a shit product that causes people to get sick and die drive a stake through the heart of eating? I feel so much sympathy for all affected by this, they did all the right things and got screwed over by a shit company's shit product and it sucks, but posts like this are such a ridiculous overreaction. Hopefully the community and developers learn from this, employ more robust security practices such as dice generated seeds and passphrases moving forward, and are stronger for it. comment: p1mbtel parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: GreemBeam created_utc: 1785837518 edited: false body: Touchscreen software? comment: p1mbwiw parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: Vagelen_Von created_utc: 1785837558 edited: false body: Yes that's the plan from day one. That's why Satoshi Nakamoto while he could receive simultaneously Nobel of Economy, Field's award and Turing award, stays anonymous not to have the end of Aaron Swartz. comment: p1mbxeq parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: Long_Illustrator_988Excerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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Three comments attributing part of the incident to user error and urging distrust of RNGs were removed and replaced with deleted-account placeholders.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 31 lines
comment: p1nfwr8 parent: t1_p1mgpuc -author: mrAech219 +author: [deleted] created_utc: 1785851533 -edited: false -body: -Even more unpopular/unemotional take: most of this issue is user error. -People not fully understanding how seed phrases work, how cold storage works and how important security due diligence is when practicing self custody. +edited: 1785962610 +body: +[deleted] comment: p1nk5az parent: t3_1vf5gj4 comment: p1nvd8h parent: t1_p1npetz -author: mrAech219 +author: [deleted] created_utc: 1785855667 -edited: false -body: -The user trust IS the error. -I’m not saying that it’s not Coinkite’s fault. Two things can be true at the same time. +edited: 1785962578 +body: +[deleted] comment: p1nvtgi parent: t1_p1nuj9b comment: p1o8jf2 parent: t1_p1o3rid -author: mrAech219 +author: [deleted] created_utc: 1785859067 -edited: false -body: -I do get your point. I’m not disagreeing with you at all. Imo Coinkite should not continue to exist after this. - -However, it should be well known and understood in the bitcoin space that putting trust in any company for any reason whatsoever introduces third party risk and that trust should be minimized at all cost. Especially when there is already a solution to that specific risk. - -I have nothing but empathy for anyone affected by this but it really should be a wakeup call to all of us. -RNGs shouldn’t be trusted. I don’t care which wallet you’re using. +edited: 1785962555 +body: +[deleted] comment: p1ofxzc parent: t1_p1o8jf2Extracted text as captured
post: 1vf5gj4 author: Crypto-Moony created_utc: 1785835835 title: This Has Struck a Dagger Through the Heart of Self-Custody body: Self-custody is the the very beating heart of bitcoin. Remove it and I suspect bitcoin would be gradually swallowed up by big finance and eventually lose the essence that gives it value. But this hack is a dagger through the self-custody movement. It will take some time to heal. There are many people who want to save their hard-earned money but are unable to deal with the technological complexities of hardware wallets, eg old people, people of below average IQ (by definition half the population), those with long working hours and children, etc, etc. Many people are terrified of making a mistake with the technology and losing everything. Coldcard was a wallet for people who were careful and took their security seriously. It was expensive, air-gapped, bitcoin only, it had been around for several years. Its touchscreen software helped users avoid obvious mistakes. And some of these most diligent people have lost everything. And where do the rest of us go? Does anyone know a hardware wallet you can really trust? Really? I don't think any of us can be so sure now. Many people will be heading over to Blackrock or Fidelity for their Bitcoin EFTs. And who could blame them? The hardware wallet industry has a long road ahead. We all need to go to sleep at night without wondering whether our retirement will have disappeared by the morning. Many of us are now anxiously turning over in our minds which wallet, if any, could be safe. comment: p1mbchq parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: gorillalifter47 created_utc: 1785837293 edited: false body: Does one car company selling a shit product that causes accidents and kills some people put a dagger through the heart of the driving? Does one food company selling a shit product that causes people to get sick and die drive a stake through the heart of eating? I feel so much sympathy for all affected by this, they did all the right things and got screwed over by a shit company's shit product and it sucks, but posts like this are such a ridiculous overreaction. Hopefully the community and developers learn from this, employ more robust security practices such as dice generated seeds and passphrases moving forward, and are stronger for it. comment: p1mbtel parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: GreemBeam created_utc: 1785837518 edited: false body: Touchscreen software? comment: p1mbwiw parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: Vagelen_VonExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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The Reddit thread gained 1 new comment.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 8 lines
Our devices hold ANSSI's CSPN certification, with RNG quality explicitly in scope. ..." + +comment: p1pzl43 +parent: t3_1vf5gj4 +author: Aqua-Barracuda +created_utc: 1785875013 +edited: false +body: +NoExtracted text as captured
post: 1vf5gj4 author: Crypto-Moony created_utc: 1785835835 title: This Has Struck a Dagger Through the Heart of Self-Custody body: Self-custody is the the very beating heart of bitcoin. Remove it and I suspect bitcoin would be gradually swallowed up by big finance and eventually lose the essence that gives it value. But this hack is a dagger through the self-custody movement. It will take some time to heal. There are many people who want to save their hard-earned money but are unable to deal with the technological complexities of hardware wallets, eg old people, people of below average IQ (by definition half the population), those with long working hours and children, etc, etc. Many people are terrified of making a mistake with the technology and losing everything. Coldcard was a wallet for people who were careful and took their security seriously. It was expensive, air-gapped, bitcoin only, it had been around for several years. Its touchscreen software helped users avoid obvious mistakes. And some of these most diligent people have lost everything. And where do the rest of us go? Does anyone know a hardware wallet you can really trust? Really? I don't think any of us can be so sure now. Many people will be heading over to Blackrock or Fidelity for their Bitcoin EFTs. And who could blame them? The hardware wallet industry has a long road ahead. We all need to go to sleep at night without wondering whether our retirement will have disappeared by the morning. Many of us are now anxiously turning over in our minds which wallet, if any, could be safe. comment: p1mbchq parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: gorillalifter47 created_utc: 1785837293 edited: false body: Does one car company selling a shit product that causes accidents and kills some people put a dagger through the heart of the driving? Does one food company selling a shit product that causes people to get sick and die drive a stake through the heart of eating? I feel so much sympathy for all affected by this, they did all the right things and got screwed over by a shit company's shit product and it sucks, but posts like this are such a ridiculous overreaction. Hopefully the community and developers learn from this, employ more robust security practices such as dice generated seeds and passphrases moving forward, and are stronger for it. comment: p1mbtel parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: GreemBeam created_utc: 1785837518 edited: false body: Touchscreen software? comment: p1mbwiw parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: Vagelen_VonExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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The Reddit thread gained 1 new comment.
Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 14 lines
edited: false body: Having a 3d printer is nice. I bought one from a seller on Etsy. I’m excited for the SS project. + +comment: p1p7p98 +parent: t1_p1op2nv +author: didnt_hodl +created_utc: 1785867805 +edited: false +body: +Ledger: " ... Our TRNG is evaluated under AIS-31 and certified PTG.2. + +Depending on the model, the Secure Element is certified to Common Criteria EAL5+ or EAL6+. + +Our devices hold ANSSI's CSPN certification, with RNG quality explicitly in scope. ..." + +Extracted text as captured
post: 1vf5gj4 author: Crypto-Moony created_utc: 1785835835 title: This Has Struck a Dagger Through the Heart of Self-Custody body: Self-custody is the the very beating heart of bitcoin. Remove it and I suspect bitcoin would be gradually swallowed up by big finance and eventually lose the essence that gives it value. But this hack is a dagger through the self-custody movement. It will take some time to heal. There are many people who want to save their hard-earned money but are unable to deal with the technological complexities of hardware wallets, eg old people, people of below average IQ (by definition half the population), those with long working hours and children, etc, etc. Many people are terrified of making a mistake with the technology and losing everything. Coldcard was a wallet for people who were careful and took their security seriously. It was expensive, air-gapped, bitcoin only, it had been around for several years. Its touchscreen software helped users avoid obvious mistakes. And some of these most diligent people have lost everything. And where do the rest of us go? Does anyone know a hardware wallet you can really trust? Really? I don't think any of us can be so sure now. Many people will be heading over to Blackrock or Fidelity for their Bitcoin EFTs. And who could blame them? The hardware wallet industry has a long road ahead. We all need to go to sleep at night without wondering whether our retirement will have disappeared by the morning. Many of us are now anxiously turning over in our minds which wallet, if any, could be safe. comment: p1mbchq parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: gorillalifter47 created_utc: 1785837293 edited: false body: Does one car company selling a shit product that causes accidents and kills some people put a dagger through the heart of the driving? Does one food company selling a shit product that causes people to get sick and die drive a stake through the heart of eating? I feel so much sympathy for all affected by this, they did all the right things and got screwed over by a shit company's shit product and it sucks, but posts like this are such a ridiculous overreaction. Hopefully the community and developers learn from this, employ more robust security practices such as dice generated seeds and passphrases moving forward, and are stronger for it. comment: p1mbtel parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: GreemBeam created_utc: 1785837518 edited: false body: Touchscreen software? comment: p1mbwiw parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: Vagelen_VonExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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Recovered from the Internet Archive rather than captured by this project. The row records that third-party provenance separately from captures made by this project.
What changed from the previous capture 0 lines
Extracted text as captured
post: 1vf5gj4 author: Crypto-Moony created_utc: 1785835835 title: This Has Struck a Dagger Through the Heart of Self-Custody body: Self-custody is the the very beating heart of bitcoin. Remove it and I suspect bitcoin would be gradually swallowed up by big finance and eventually lose the essence that gives it value. But this hack is a dagger through the self-custody movement. It will take some time to heal. There are many people who want to save their hard-earned money but are unable to deal with the technological complexities of hardware wallets, eg old people, people of below average IQ (by definition half the population), those with long working hours and children, etc, etc. Many people are terrified of making a mistake with the technology and losing everything. Coldcard was a wallet for people who were careful and took their security seriously. It was expensive, air-gapped, bitcoin only, it had been around for several years. Its touchscreen software helped users avoid obvious mistakes. And some of these most diligent people have lost everything. And where do the rest of us go? Does anyone know a hardware wallet you can really trust? Really? I don't think any of us can be so sure now. Many people will be heading over to Blackrock or Fidelity for their Bitcoin EFTs. And who could blame them? The hardware wallet industry has a long road ahead. We all need to go to sleep at night without wondering whether our retirement will have disappeared by the morning. Many of us are now anxiously turning over in our minds which wallet, if any, could be safe. comment: p1mbchq parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: gorillalifter47 created_utc: 1785837293 edited: false body: Does one car company selling a shit product that causes accidents and kills some people put a dagger through the heart of the driving? Does one food company selling a shit product that causes people to get sick and die drive a stake through the heart of eating? I feel so much sympathy for all affected by this, they did all the right things and got screwed over by a shit company's shit product and it sucks, but posts like this are such a ridiculous overreaction. Hopefully the community and developers learn from this, employ more robust security practices such as dice generated seeds and passphrases moving forward, and are stronger for it. comment: p1mbtel parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: GreemBeam created_utc: 1785837518 edited: false body: Touchscreen software? comment: p1mbwiw parent: t3_1vf5gj4 author: Vagelen_VonExcerpt only. The complete copy is held offline and backs quotations on this site. The original publication remains the canonical public source.
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